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Post by Juujuu » Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:37 am we have a good shaman on a raid that only pays attention to what the loot channel is going to be and tells asking for buffs or asking if you want to be in on a roll. /sarcasm on I can't imagine why Saph is claiming you are a sucky raider. /sarcasm off
That's some funny stuff there.
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Post by Shallon » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:13 am

Why oh why has this gone on for so long...............

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Post by Redspine Bladeslinge » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:34 am

This thread has gone South of the Boarder!

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Post by Krozzon » Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:31 pm

Nazku wrote:damn now I have to kick your ass in RL too, friday good ?
As long as you bring the Weed! :shock: :shock: :lol: :shock: :shock:

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Post by Burz » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:20 pm

Amalia Kuso wrote:
Lelandpain apply to Enshadowed. At Enshadowed we know drama!
Their officers create their own, thus being one of the truest lines I have ever heard from a member.
Yah, I hate it when Njorls causes all that HoF drama.

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Post by zzash » Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:07 pm

Instead of examining the facts concerning the glove issue, Daemonwind and now Zyam defend Leland and attack my logs as being fabricated. I only wish you two offered me 1% of the respect I had for you both and your in-game accomplishments. But since you insist that I am changing the logs to suit myself, let me try this one more time.

Opening roll is called on the gloves for those with 188 bs skill. No one enters channel. Why? Because dear Watson, the Only Person In The Entire Raid That Has A Skill Of Greater Than 188 is Lelandpain. And, since Lelandpain has the Ssra bs hammer, he Does Not Enter The Channel.

Let me restate this again, to enter the channel you must Have A BS skill Of Greater Than 188 and no one but he had 188+ bs skill on this raid.

There understand now?

Then Leland says in raid chat, "by the way, i have 230 blacksmithing"...

10 seconds later the call goes for those with 150+ skill to enter. At this point 7, count them again, seven, people enter the channel. Let me remind you that the gloves go to the person with highest bs skill on the raid. Let me also point out that Leland has claimed to have the highest skill present.

35 seconds after the call for 150+ people, the hammer is awarded to Leland because he has the highest skill on the raid by far. Note again, seven (7) people were in the loot channel by now.

16 seconds before Leland loots the gloves, it is announced to the raid that Leland has the ssra hammer. He still loots them. Did he miss this little announcement due to the congrats? Yes, I am sure he did. Still though, he knew the rules and he knew what they meant. A lie of omission is the same as changing the story completely. Why do you think all the corporate scandals are occurring now?

He lied, case closed.

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Post by Awea » Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:14 pm

If he had a 230 smithing as shown in someone's logs, why would he wait until it got to 150 to join the channel?

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Post by Daemonwind » Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:44 pm

Actually, I'm not attacking the logs as being fabricated. I'm saying such heavily edited logs as those are EASY to be frabricated. I then proceeded on the assumption that they were not, so as to give you the benefit of the doubt. Read my post again. Your accusation that I'm not examining the facts is just plain wrong.

BTW, heavily edited logs as those can also easily be edited to an extent that they tend to support one side o the sotry and not another. for example, a statement that would tend to support Leland's point of vew can easily be chosen not to be shown so as to weaken Leland's case and strengthen the people against Leland's case.

I'd be much more willing to accept those logs at face value if they were the full, unedited logs. Preferably the same logs from two different people.

And, agree Awea, this is what I'm saying.

He lied, case closed? Only for the closed minded.

Anyway. I wasn't going to reply further to this thread, but I felt I needed to respond to that. Not much point in further responding to the thread, here.

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Post by Partha » Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:57 pm

Actually, if you believe his logs, and then his statements, Subtle called for a open roll on the gloves after 7 people entered at 150+. I'd wonder why that was done?

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Post by ZyamSpirit » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:01 pm

Why ? because I believe that the loot master called 188, then 150, then open and he kept calling it because nobody was joing channels.

ZZASH, I want referring to your logs. As a matter of fact i don't recall reading them. Im referring to what I was told PERSONALY. Ya see, Im not just someone reading this thread about a stranger and his guild. I know the individual involved and its why I support him so.. besides the gloves incident was so called " The straw that broke the cammels back".. well this must have been a weak cammel... because i dont see too much more straw in its back. I do however see Saph claiming that he had a history of loot issues.

She even went as far as to say " You would have had more issues had you not just joined us when we started SSRA/VT" Lelanpain has been raiding with SoH since I was lvl 40 ish and they were just starting Sleepers tomb.

Now was her comment an honest mistake in memory ? or was it a Lie in attempt to take a shot at his character? either way it disolves the credibility she needs to hold to accuse him of the actions shes's doingso.

Where the hell is Subtle? He always has a firm voice on his own in matters like this and honestly, It comes down to 2 people. Subtle (the guild leader) and Lelandpain. the guildy. but instead all you hear is Saph hammering away.. Makes you think ....

and We dont even wanna touch the Saph Reverse psychology about lelandpain guilding elsewhere that she seems to repeat every post slipping it here and there ...


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Post by Faol » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:16 pm

Maybe because Subtle doesn't give a fuck what you think and so has no burning desire to enlighten you?

Pretty sure the rest of guild is just having fun.

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Post by Faol » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:17 pm

Woot! I did it I made page 10! owe me now bud.

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Post by Aengus » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:48 pm

woot page 10 ! ... see me in game ... beer on da house !


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Post by Aengus » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:16 pm

I forgot to add this, I am still a little confused about what shall now be know as "The Great Glove Heist of 2003". Was it 188+ called then, 150 and 7 people join, then awarded to Leland, or was it 188+ called, then 150+ then open and 7 people joined, or was it 188+ called then 150, then 7 people join, then open called, then awarded to Leland.

All 3 scenarios have been presented here.

Scenario 1 : seems unlikely to me, if he planned on going for the gloves why wait till 150 to join when he has 230

Scenario 2 : Seems possible, item called open and he joined. Would then be Subtles mistake for not rolling the item (mistakes happen)

Scenario 3 : seems unlikely to me that Subtle would proceed to call open on an item if 7 people are in the channel already, but he could have made a mistake (mistakes happen)

In any case I know what it is like to be buffing and trying to watch 5 different channels on raids (/rs, /raid chit chat,/class channel,/guild chat,/and various loot channels). It gets crazy sometimes esspecially when you throw in tells for buffs. Part of being a good raider is doing what the raid leader tells you. Raid leader tells me to loot an item and I am gonna loot it.

Just gotta say I know everyone has their own loot system, but hugs DKP. It is fast,, easy, and isn't like trying to read Japanesse stereo instructions.


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Post by Soulwalker » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:28 pm

Woot! I did it I made page 10! owe me now bud.
/hugs Faol..
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Post by Panadora » Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:17 am

I have been reading this rant all the way thru and I am more than puzzled here.

First scenario reads nobody entered channel until gloves were called open. Subtle sent Leland a tell informing him to loot he gloves.

Second scenario reads 7 people were in channel at +150 and Subtle said open and then apparently Leland entered channel, Subtle sends him a tell to loot gloves.

Third scenario reads WE WANNA COVER UP SUBTLE'S FUCKUP!!!!!!!!

Read em all folks, it's all right there for everyone to see. The issue is not why Leland looted the gloves, it's apparent that he was told to loot the gloves.

This is no more than a cover up now for someone who a) had no business rolling the loot or b) had no clue what they were doing. :lol:

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Post by Kerri » Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:57 pm

You must be fucking insane. There have been mistakes made with loot rolls before and nobody has ever been kicked out because of it. You keep making up shit to fill in the blanks you know nothing about to quell your curriosity though. It's highly entertaining.

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Post by Kulanae Soulsease » Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:47 pm

I think I understand what is going on after reading Myrlena's post. Basically the Gloves will always go to a smith due to the fact that it has a smithing mod on it and SoH has determined that it be so per their loot rules.

So I think "Open" means it is open to all smiths below 150 skill that do not already have the smithing hammer from Ssra. Am I reading that right?

If I am reading that right and Leland knew the rule then he was wrong. It may be a screwed up way of distributing a very nice piece of VT loot.....but that is SoH's call.

Personally I think they should have set a base minimum level of smithing to qualify. The notion of someone with a 5 in smithing getting those gloves over a master smith Shaman is quite appaling to me but it's not my call.
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Post by Nasreen Daemonell » Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:02 pm

Open means to all levels of smiths. Our loot rules are very firm in the fact that these items, because of their high level of tradeskill mods, will go to a smith as long as one needs them. There are comperable pieces of armor for the stats, but nothing matches the tradeskill mod (excluding the hammer from XTC and the tailoring thing Myr mentioned).

The thing you didnt factor in, Kulanae, is that our guild is really good (typically :)) about putting guild needs before personal needs. If someone has a low smithing, but is actively working their butt off to increase it, they have every right to that mod. I cannot think of one person in my guild who would roll on any of those items with a mod with a very low skill and not be actively working towards skill increases. So no one with a skill of 5 is going to roll on them just so they can have an effective skill of 6 and never do anything with smithing again.

As people have said before, over and over, they're our rules. You dont have to agree with them, you are perfectly within your rights to feel they're the worst rules ever. <shrugs> They work for us, and that's what matters. I think people got off on a tangent of attacking and defending the way we do loot, and lost sight of the real issue. It wasnt just that Leland looted gloves that several other people would have loved to have. That was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

Honestly, this needs to be moved past. People posting now are just talking back and forth about the mechanics of our loot rules. It shouldnt, and doesnt, matter to you what they are, because you dont have to use them and you're not affected by them at all. Everyone needs to just agree to disagree and get over it.

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Post by -=Xilanthanax=- » Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:09 am

This thread, is still about 10 pages too long.
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