Reality

Some of us think far more than we should
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Kulaf
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Re: Reality

Post by Kulaf » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:02 am

Now are you trying to say that minorities cannot be racists?

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Select
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Re: Reality

Post by Select » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:12 am

To simplify - A white person can be racist towards a black person. A black person can't be racist towards a white person because they are not the privileged group and lack the social/financial/political power to systematically oppress. So a black person is prejudiced towards the white person. In regards to Chris Rock and black "jokes", it's hard for a member of an oppressed group to have the privileged power to systematically oppress their own race. You really have never heard that belief before? :shock:

This may be confusing you because it's the sociological approach to racism, not the psychological approach which is what people typically think of when they hear "racism" - just an attitude towards a people.
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Kulaf
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Re: Reality

Post by Kulaf » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:33 am

Wow are you messed up. Again you are making a sweeping generalization. So Oprah can't be a racist because she's black......even though she wields enormous power and wealth?

This isn't confusing......you're just plain wrong.

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Re: Reality

Post by Kulaf » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:37 am

Ohh and how does the recent slaughter of rival black factions in Rwanda fit into your nice tiddy definition of racism?

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Select
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Re: Reality

Post by Select » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:44 am

She is an individual member of a traditionally oppressed group. She as an individual has power and money. She is not a member of the majority (whites) who are traditionally and still majorly powerful within the social and political system.

Martha Stewart has power both as a successful individual and as a member of the privileged group. As a black woman Oprah cannot enact racial privileged power against whites because she doesn't have any.

As a rich person, the privilege Oprah does have is the privilege that comes with being upper class. She has the power to systematically discriminate against lower classes.
Last edited by Select on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reality

Post by Select » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:46 am

Ohh and how does the recent slaughter of rival black factions in Rwanda fit into your nice tiddy definition of racism?
That's another country where social status and power is differently held. This is about sociology in the U.S. - Though there are people who say that because of colonialism, whites maintain privilege in most places throughout the world.
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Kulaf
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Re: Reality

Post by Kulaf » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:14 am

As a black woman Oprah cannot enact racial privileged power against whites because she doesn't have any.
LOL :lol:

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Re: Reality

Post by Mukik » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:16 am

you not only fail , but epically so.

Here sweetcheeks , from dictionary.com

rac⋅ism  /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
Use racism in a Sentence
See web results for racism
See images of racism
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

While youre vehemetly standing by example number two. youre ignoring 1 and 3.

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Re: Reality

Post by Fobbon Lazyfoot » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:32 am

I feel dirty saying this, but Kulaf is right. Racism is not a one way street. You have a fundamentally flawed view of how racism works if you think it is dependent upon population demographics.

You're pulling a Savarok and just spewing uncontrolled Sociology 101.

Oh wait, we're talking about black people, so thats Criminal Justice 101, right? ZING
I like posting.

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Re: Reality

Post by Kulaf » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:42 am

She's just trying to narrow the scope of racism to one definition......even though she never made that distinction in her original quote, and trying to divert attention from her original faux pas.

Select I think you need to read up on Elitism if you don't think Oprah has power, racial or otherwise.

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Xythe Grebbulis
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Re: Reality

Post by Xythe Grebbulis » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:34 am

Select wrote:To simplify - A white person can be racist towards a black person. A black person can't be racist towards a white person because they are not the privileged group and lack the social/financial/political power to systematically oppress. So a black person is prejudiced towards the white person. In regards to Chris Rock and black "jokes", it's hard for a member of an oppressed group to have the privileged power to systematically oppress their own race. You really have never heard that belief before?
Select,
rac-ism [rey-siz-uhm]–noun
1. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant
of human traits and capacities and that racial differences
produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

*In the case of institutional racism, certain racial
groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential
treatment, while Reverse discrimination favors members of a
historically disadvantaged group at the expense of those of a
historically advantaged group. Racial discrimination typically
points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people,
even though anybody can be racialised, independently of their somatic
differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no
distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic
discrimination.

**Any person of ANY race CAN be racist

Just to clarify (there seems to be a bad case of retardation happening)
if you didn't know. Reverse discrimination is denial of
equal protection of the laws and is viewed as discrimination on
the basis of race by opponents of racial quota programs
(a.k.a. reverse racism), while proponents of racial
quotas and affirmative action programs generally view it as
discrimination against members of a dominant or majority group
in order to promote members of a minority or consistently
disadvantaged group (benign discrimination).However, to
the individuals concerned it still discriminates against one in
favor of another based on race/gender/disability.


op⋅pres⋅sion [uh-presh-uhn] –noun
1. the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel,
or unjust manner.
2. an act or instance of oppressing.
3. the state of being oppressed.

*discrimination against an identified group is stimulated,
encouraged and reinforced by way of promoting antagonism
towards the Other. The term itself is derived, in a direct
experiential sense, from the sensation of being pushed or
lifted up by a greatly superior force.

**Oppression doesn't mean racism or necessarily even anything having to do
with people hating other people, though Racists can bring/cause oppression.

2nd:
Jarochai Alabaster wrote: Remember Xythe? He's mine and was Gwildor's best friend. The three of us lived under one roof for several years. Xythe and I live under the same roof now. He, to this day, twists as much of our interactions as possible into one big gay joke. Is he homophobic simply because he targets my sexuality for jokes?
Select wrote:
From how you're describing him, I'd say that some piece of him naively is - Even if you feel these comments don't hurt you, said around other people he does not have as close and accepting a relationship with, will negatively impact them. Just because I try to avoid these jokes, does not mean that I don't do other things which have a negative impact - most of which I've been unaware of. The point of education is to realize that you naively do things to harm others, things which are very easy to avoid/eliminate from your day to day encounters.


A: Jaro NEVER described me in any way, shape or form. He asked if you remember me (and probably meant it rhetorically)
and then stated some facts about me living with 2 homo's for the better part of a decade, whilst making gay jokes.
B: Are you trying to imply that I'm am not aware that people naively do things that harm others, that I have no tact or respect for other people that may be within ear shot? Because things like that are situational, would these hypothetical innocent bystanders be eves dropping or not minding their own business? if so, then FUCK 'EM, who was talking to them anyway. For the most part I do mind my surroundings and people within proximity.
C: I do NOT have a single homophobic bone in my body, so to speak. By you stating that I am homophobic even if it is naively
is offensive, absurd and makes you look like an idiot. You do NOT know me nor have you been given enough information about me to even make that assumption, again you are just being WIDELY and IGNORANTLY GENERAL. Break the cycle Select.


Finally,
Select wrote:To simplify -



If Oprah used her money and power to order a watermelon or perhaps
fried chicken, so she may devour them (they are delicious after all),
she would be an oppressor of watermelon or chicken.
If we replay the same scenario over again and this time she called the
(no doubt) Mexican waitperson a tortilla slinging beaner she would be a Racist.
Then if she used her money and power to find this persons home and cover their
lawn with beans, rice and cheese she would be a racist oppressor. <--- JOKE using
racism as a catalyst! NOT racism in the guise of a joke, you MUST understand the
context as it is presenting itself.

That is all.
- Xythe Grebbulis

oh yeah, one more thing,...Oprah's a nigger. <----- racism
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Embar Angylwrath
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Re: Reality

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:14 am

You got some seriously fucked up ideas on how the world works, Select. I just chalk it up to college naivete... I remember plenty of people in college who had some weird-ass ideas on how the world worked. Today, most just shake their heads and wonder how they could have thought the way they did. You'll be them one day, I suspect. Either that or get locked up for paranoid schizophrenia.

You're dead wrong on this issue, and are going through all kinds of illogical contortions to support an ever-more ridiculous sopposition. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: Reality

Post by Partha » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:20 am

If you can't believe that a black can't be a racist, all you need to know are three terms.

High Yellow
Zebra
Redbone

Everyone can be a racist unless they've got Gautama Buddha levels of understanding. Which none of us has.

I'm trying to be nice about it, Select. Shut the fuck up, the damage to your rep is done. Don't add to it.
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Kulaf
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Re: Reality

Post by Kulaf » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:08 am

The only thing that could top this off would be the following:

Select comes in here saying that because women are also oppressed and have no "real" power in the US that white woman can also not be racists. After all only white men can be racists in America.

This is why liberalism is ruining the young minds of tomorrow in many of our higher institutes of learning.

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Re: Reality

Post by Jarochai Alabaster » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:19 am

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-Carl Sagan

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Re: Reality

Post by Taxious » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:31 am

Embar Angylwrath wrote:I just chalk it up to college naivete... I remember plenty of people in college who had some weird-ass ideas on how the world worked.
I can back this statement up with personal experience. 4 years ago I probably would be agreeing with Select about a lot of this.
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Re: Reality

Post by Harlowe » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:11 am

Embar Angylwrath wrote:You got some seriously fucked up ideas on how the world works, Select. I just chalk it up to college naivete... I remember plenty of people in college who had some weird-ass ideas on how the world worked.
I don't think she's fucked up at all or has "ruined her rep" here (like that really happens), but you are chalking it up to the right thing. I think she's someone that has an honestly passionate view of equality and inequalitly - which is VERY common in college students, especially your first few years.

Have people been out of college so long they don't remember that sort of passion and sense of injustice in the world?
This is why liberalism is ruining the young minds of tomorrow in many of our higher institutes of learning.
That is such bullshit, people become jaded, cycnical and more pragmatic soon enough upon leaving college.

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Re: Reality

Post by Lurker » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:54 am

Wow. Talk about piling on. Other than the original statement about jokes which was obviously too absolute to be true, Select hasn't been that wrong about the differences between racism and prejudice to warrant all this backlash and anger.
Harlowe wrote:
Kulaf wrote:This is why liberalism is ruining the young minds of tomorrow in many of our higher institutes of learning.
That is such bullshit, people become jaded, cycnical and more pragmatic soon enough upon leaving college.
Right. Being overly sensitive to racism and injustice is hardly going to ruin someones mind or destroy the world. And considering the fantasy world "conservatives" have built with their propaganda outlets where facts literally do not matter, and the hate, fear and paranoia spewing from their leaders in the media and Congress, Kulaf's concern for our future might be a little misplaced.

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Re: Reality

Post by Harlowe » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:01 pm

Lurker wrote:Wow. Talk about piling on. Other than the original statement about jokes which was obviously too absolute to be true, Select hasn't been that wrong about the differences between racism and prejudice to warrant all this backlash and anger.
I know, the backlash has been pretty ridiculous - including the "new" account created just to tell her how wrong she is. :roll:

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Re: Reality

Post by Xythe Grebbulis » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:19 pm

Harlowe wrote:the "new" account created just to tell her how wrong she is. :roll:
I apologize maybe i should have waited to make my return to BRELL RANTS, until I found a wonderful topic about cute bunnies to post about so as not to offend anyone, Harlowe.
I certainly couldn't pull out an "old account" from thin air to tell her how dumb she was/is sounding.
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