Obamacare

Dumbass pinko-nazi-neoconservative-hippy-capitalists.
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Embar Angylwrath
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:52 pm

And Obamacare made it full retard.

Never go full retard...
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

Embar
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Ddrak
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Ddrak » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:43 am

Embar Angylwrath wrote:I can tell you this, from a pure cost-savings standpoint, our balance sheet would look a lot better if we let our employees get insurance on the exchanges.
Isn't that just saying "we'd save money if we paid them less"?

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Embar Angylwrath
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:16 am

No. Its saying our balance sheet would look better if we reduced or eliminated a benefit cost.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: Obamacare

Post by Ddrak » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:02 pm

Embar Angylwrath wrote:reduced or eliminated a benefit cost.
i.e. paid them less.

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Partha
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Partha » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:59 pm

....of course, every business would love to make maximum money while outlaying nothing for their volunteer workers. But that's not how a functional capitalist society works. So Propertarians like Embar can dream the Ayn Rand dream of worker robots and lives in Galt's Gulch, far removed from their lessers.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.

Embar Angylwrath
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:31 am

Ddrak wrote:
Embar Angylwrath wrote:reduced or eliminated a benefit cost.
i.e. paid them less.

Dd
How so?
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

Embar
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Ddrak » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:02 pm

Embar Angylwrath wrote:How so?
Reduced the value of their benefits package.

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Embar Angylwrath
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:59 pm

How is a benefit package a wage?
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

Embar
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Embar Angylwrath
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:30 pm

Partha wrote:....of course, every business would love to make maximum money while outlaying nothing for their volunteer workers. But that's not how a functional capitalist society works. So Propertarians like Embar can dream the Ayn Rand dream of worker robots and lives in Galt's Gulch, far removed from their lessers.
Interested to know if you've ever shopped at a big box retailer, Walmart, Target, etc. Or eaten at a fast food chain like Subway, McDonalds, etc. If so, you've furthered what you espouse to hate, as those are the companies that are shifting the employee mix to part-timers to avoid the costs of Obamacare.

Personally, I hate Walmart. Been there maybe three times in the past year. Just going by my admittedly biased preconceptions, I'd say most of the shoppers there were not the the elite rich. I'd wager most of them were lower wage workers and retirees with health issues. The one's that would take advantage of Obamacare the most. Yet here they are, supporting a company that avoids Obamacare.

To reiterate... the 99% don't give a rat's ass about one another. They're just pissed they aren't the 1%
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

Embar
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Partha
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Partha » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:49 am

Embar Angylwrath wrote:
Partha wrote:....of course, every business would love to make maximum money while outlaying nothing for their volunteer workers. But that's not how a functional capitalist society works. So Propertarians like Embar can dream the Ayn Rand dream of worker robots and lives in Galt's Gulch, far removed from their lessers.
Interested to know if you've ever shopped at a big box retailer, Walmart, Target, etc. Or eaten at a fast food chain like Subway, McDonalds, etc. If so, you've furthered what you espouse to hate, as those are the companies that are shifting the employee mix to part-timers to avoid the costs of Obamacare.

Personally, I hate Walmart. Been there maybe three times in the past year. Just going by my admittedly biased preconceptions, I'd say most of the shoppers there were not the the elite rich. I'd wager most of them were lower wage workers and retirees with health issues. The one's that would take advantage of Obamacare the most. Yet here they are, supporting a company that avoids Obamacare.

To reiterate... the 99% don't give a rat's ass about one another. They're just pissed they aren't the 1%
Ah, yes, the old 'you just envy us' canard.

Did you ever figure out why they go to WalMart? Take a wild guess.

Secondly, WalMart's 'insurance' that they used to offer was a gem of a plan called StarBridge. I know of it from working for another company that had it. Expenses are capped at $1000 a year by the plan, which has more exceptions than the English language, as well. That means one doctor visit per year, if you're unlucky. You're also not allowed to unionize there, so the '99% that don't give a rat's ass' can't argue for better wages and benefits.

But I waste my time explaining this to a knuckledragger who doesn't consider insurance part of the cost of labor except on his tax bill.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.

Ddrak
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Ddrak » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:20 am

Embar Angylwrath wrote:How is a benefit package a wage?
Uh, it's all expenses incurred by the employer for the benefit of the employee in exchange for the labor of the employee.

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Embar Angylwrath
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:42 am

Maybe its different in Oz, I really don't know. But here in the states, a wage is required to be paid to an employee. A benefit is not required, and therefore is not a wage.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

Embar
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Ddrak » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:05 am

Embar Angylwrath wrote:Maybe its different in Oz, I really don't know. But here in the states, a wage is required to be paid to an employee. A benefit is not required, and therefore is not a wage.
So then by reducing benefits, you are taking away "something that is paid to an employee" (your words, not mine). Therefore you are reducing what they are paid. Therefore you are paying them less.

Dd
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Partha
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Partha » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:38 am

But I waste my time explaining this to a knuckledragger who doesn't consider insurance part of the cost of labor except on his tax bill.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.

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Re: Obamacare

Post by Kulaf » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:20 pm

Ddrak wrote:
Embar Angylwrath wrote:Maybe its different in Oz, I really don't know. But here in the states, a wage is required to be paid to an employee. A benefit is not required, and therefore is not a wage.
So then by reducing benefits, you are taking away "something that is paid to an employee" (your words, not mine). Therefore you are reducing what they are paid. Therefore you are paying them less.

Dd
Ummm......no. You are examining the wrong side of the personal finance ledger. Taking away a benefit the employee would have to pay for themselves is not affecting their inflow of cash. It's no different than taking away a company car.

Therefore you are not paying them less, you are increasing their expenses.

Embar Angylwrath
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:52 pm

Ddrak wrote:
Embar Angylwrath wrote:Maybe its different in Oz, I really don't know. But here in the states, a wage is required to be paid to an employee. A benefit is not required, and therefore is not a wage.
So then by reducing benefits, you are taking away "something that is paid to an employee" (your words, not mine). Therefore you are reducing what they are paid. Therefore you are paying them less.

Dd
Those aren't my words. Benefits are not something that is paid to the employee. Wages are. Benefits are (or are not) provided, not paid directly tot he employee like some kind of stipend.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

Embar
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Jarochai Alabaster » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:56 pm

Do you people truly mean to suggest that benefits are not part of the total compensatory package for employees?
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Fallakin Kuvari » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:31 pm

Benefits != Wage.

Benefits = Additional Benefits acquired through your employer. Which is why they're called Benefits in the first place. They are also very much optional.
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Ddrak » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:18 am

Kulaf wrote:Ummm......no. You are examining the wrong side of the personal finance ledger. Taking away a benefit the employee would have to pay for themselves is not affecting their inflow of cash. It's no different than taking away a company car.
No. I'm talking about the company ledger. Paid = outgoings. Wages = outgoings. Benefits = outgoings. Company PAYS.
Fallakin Kuvari wrote:Benefits != Wage.

Benefits = Additional Benefits acquired through your employer. Which is why they're called Benefits in the first place. They are also very much optional.
Embar said "wage". I said "paid them less". Benefits are absolutely part of what a company pays. Unless you're suggesting a company doesn't pay for benefits?

Embar Angylwrath wrote:
Ddrak wrote:
Embar Angylwrath wrote:Maybe its different in Oz, I really don't know. But here in the states, a wage is required to be paid to an employee. A benefit is not required, and therefore is not a wage.
So then by reducing benefits, you are taking away "something that is paid to an employee" (your words, not mine). Therefore you are reducing what they are paid. Therefore you are paying them less.

Dd
Those aren't my words. Benefits are not something that is paid to the employee. Wages are. Benefits are (or are not) provided, not paid directly tot he employee like some kind of stipend.
Those are your exact words. Let me repeat them again: A WAGE IS REQUIRED TO BE PAID TO AN EMPLOYEE. A BENEFIT IS NOT REQUIRED. The second sentence references the first directly, which means you very literally said A BENEFIT IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE PAID TO AN EMPLOYEE, which means you absolutely believe a benefit is paid to an employee.

Unless you're suggesting a company doesn't PAY for benefits?

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Fallakin Kuvari
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Re: Obamacare

Post by Fallakin Kuvari » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:29 am

Ddrak wrote:
Fallakin Kuvari wrote:Benefits != Wage.

Benefits = Additional Benefits acquired through your employer. Which is why they're called Benefits in the first place. They are also very much optional.
Embar said "wage". I said "paid them less". Benefits are absolutely part of what a company pays. Unless you're suggesting a company doesn't pay for benefits?

Dd
Its not a guaranteed payment within a contractual agreement. All that is guaranteed is your Salary, the Benefits are optional things you and the company contribute towards to make your life a little easier. They're not contractually obligated to provide those benefits and as such can stop should the business needs demand they pull back their spending.
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