Big Brother Is Listening...

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Partha
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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Partha » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:50 pm

Minute wrote:Naw Partha, this isn't a left-right or even a me-them statement. I think people who vote for candidates that I don't necessarily align with should count as long as they actually know enough about the person to legitimize their vote. If I can't answer a short questionnaire correctly about the person I'm electing to represent me, why should my vote count? We have certifications for most things that shows you qualify to do certain tasks. Drive, Teach, operate a forklift. The only qualification to vote is being born. And in my opinion that isn't enough.
Except, of course, that voting is not a privilege for you to grant or withhold. Do that and you become no different from any totalitarian state.

No, there is a reason that in this country, there has been a two century plus movement to expand the franchise. It starts with 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal....'
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Minute » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:04 pm

You aren't wrong. I don't like the idea of people not being able to represent themselves. But at the same time I see how easily the people of this country are swayed by gimmicks, lies, and media management & that scares me. Maybe the vote thing isn't the answer, but I wish someone smarter than I would come up with something better.
Fallakin Kuvari wrote:Because laws that require voters to have an ID (Something they are required to have anyway) are bad.... :roll:

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Partha » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:39 am

Minute wrote:You aren't wrong. I don't like the idea of people not being able to represent themselves. But at the same time I see how easily the people of this country are swayed by gimmicks, lies, and media management & that scares me. Maybe the vote thing isn't the answer, but I wish someone smarter than I would come up with something better.
There's no easy, short-term solution. The best antidote is education. Which makes it a no-brainer as to why some factions in this society want to keep us dumb and dumber.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.

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Fallakin Kuvari
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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Fallakin Kuvari » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:49 am

Which also makes it simple to see why some factions in this country want to control education so bad...
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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:13 pm

Partha wrote:
Minute wrote:You aren't wrong. I don't like the idea of people not being able to represent themselves. But at the same time I see how easily the people of this country are swayed by gimmicks, lies, and media management & that scares me. Maybe the vote thing isn't the answer, but I wish someone smarter than I would come up with something better.
There's no easy, short-term solution. The best antidote is education. Which makes it a no-brainer as to why some factions in this society want to keep us dumb and dumber.
That would be the factions that continue to support a failed educational system.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Harlowe » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:35 pm

Vouchers would just solve all our problems. Privatizing things works so well.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Partha » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:00 am

Harlowe wrote:Vouchers would just solve all our problems. Privatizing things works so well.
It does if you want to make money off the privatization. Notice they don't mind welfare as long as you're spending the proceeds with the school they own.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Ddrak » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:45 am

Back on topic, seems Snowden's leaks are expanding. Lots of allegations on systematic US spying on allies (UK, EU, G20, etc.). Add to this some serious US loss of face with basically Russia, China, Venezuela and Ecuador all giving the US the diplomatic middle finger on demands to hand Snowden over. End result - US is less and less trusted as a partner and more viewed as an oppressive empire. More serious end result - much stronger distrust of the US leads to significantly less cooperation and balkanization of allied intelligence efforts.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Arathena » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:19 am

Harlowe wrote:Vouchers would just solve all our problems. Privatizing things works so well.
Clearly, we need to privatize intelligence gathering.
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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Ddrak » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:52 pm

Isn't that exactly what PRISM did?

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Kulaf » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:11 pm

Are we really surprised that the U.S. Intelligence community was possibly bugging the political offices of other countries that reside within the borders of the United States? Really? I would be surprised if they weren't.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Ddrak » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:16 am

Systematic spying on allies is generally frowned upon, particularly at the level the US appears to have engaged in (rerouting entire G20 internet accesses through NSA controlled routers, etc.) That's basically a sign that the US considers everyone else an enemy, and is expecting the same in return. Do you really want the whole world to treat you as a potential enemy?

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Kulaf » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:27 am

I think the question most of those countries have to ask is......did you let it happen on purpose? Did you benefit from the US syping on your citizens that you couldn't do yourself?

That's the questions they need to address.

And IMO......the intelligence community always thinks everyone could be a potential enemy. That's the old "keep your friends close, and you enemies closer" adage in action.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Ddrak » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:38 pm

The UK is having a very difficult time with that particular question. I have little doubt Australia would be any different, just our current government is too busy fucking itself over in broad daylight for anyone to even care what goes on behind closed doors.

I'm sure allies spy on each other. I just get the impression from this that the US went over the line in a "you can take my wife to the movies, but no banging her in the back seat on the way home" kind of way.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Kulaf » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:56 pm

I think spying on allies in their own country is wrong for the most part, there are certainly exceptions, but these were buildings in the US and that changes things imo.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Ddrak » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:48 am

Not entirely - they bugged the EU headquarters in Brussels, it seems, and were also diverting all internet traffic from G20 delegates in London through an NSA controller router, among other things.

Now we get this from Snowden:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Seriously, wtf. Snowden is worth a diplomatic incident with a foreign head of state and chief of their armed services? Hillary is fucking nuts.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Partha » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:31 pm

Um, Dd, they diverted to Austria because of a bad fuel gauge. First Reporting FTL on that one.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Ddrak » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:49 am

Partha wrote:Um, Dd, they diverted to Austria because of a bad fuel gauge. First Reporting FTL on that one.
?? Not seeing that anywhere.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Partha » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:09 am

Ddrak wrote:
Partha wrote:Um, Dd, they diverted to Austria because of a bad fuel gauge. First Reporting FTL on that one.
?? Not seeing that anywhere.

Dd
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2 ... art/66838/
Control tower: Do you need any assistance?

Pilot: Not at this moment. We need to land because we cannot get a correct indication of the fuel indication so as a precaution we need to land.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.

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Re: Big Brother Is Listening...

Post by Kulaf » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:43 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/world ... .html?_r=1&
PARIS — Days after President François Hollande sternly told the United States to stop spying on its allies, the newspaper Le Monde disclosed on Thursday that France has its own large program of data collection, which sweeps up nearly all the data transmissions, including telephone calls, e-mails and social media activity, that come in and out of France.
Oops.

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