Oh for eff's sake, what next

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Harlowe
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Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Harlowe » Tue May 14, 2013 7:56 am

Two more scandals...awesome. I'm so utterly frustrated with Obama right now. Not frustrated enough to make me vote Tea Party assholes into office, but for fuck's sake.

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-ir ... 014-2013-5

It's going to screw things for Dem's come the next election and the DFL taking control of both houses here has been how our state has actually gotten some really great legislation through. Just two years ago, the GOP were trying to push through a BAN on gay marriage and today our governor is signing marriage equality into law.

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Ddrak » Tue May 14, 2013 8:10 am

The IRS one is a fair bit of spin to turn it into a real scandal. If you find a few TP orgs with improper filings then of course you should put the whole lot under extra scrutiny. I think the TP is just crying like a stuck pig because they got caught evading taxes.

The AP one - string 'em up. I hate the executive power grab that's been ratcheting up since... forever.

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Freecare Spiritwise » Tue May 14, 2013 10:44 am

Hmmm, the party which openly states that taxes are unconstitutional and nobody should have to pay them is found to be getting extra scrutiny by the branch of the government responsible for collecting taxes. That was hard to see coming.

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Tue May 14, 2013 11:19 am

I don't think Obama had anything to do with the IRS stuff, although he needs to clean house. Apparently, the Chief of the IRS lied to Congress...twice.. about it when he wrote that no one really knew about it since it was low level staff that engaged in it. Then some pesky docimentation surfaces showing he was briefed on it a few times, as was his predeccesor, and he did nothing about it.

So it was a targetting of certain groups that was given tacit approval by the head of the IRS. If Obama doesn't nuke the agency and take some heads, then yes Harlowe, the Dem bran will suffer in the election. If he takes a machete in there and goes Mexican cartel on people, he'll be ok on this issue.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Tue May 14, 2013 11:33 am

Correction -

Actually, Obama may be hamstrung in his efforts to actually do anything about it. IRS employees are civil service employees, not political appointees. As such, they have enormous employment protections and lengthy appeals processes.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Freecare Spiritwise » Tue May 14, 2013 12:07 pm

Give us a flat tax, and then there's no need for the IRS or the Tea Party :)

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Ddrak » Tue May 14, 2013 3:57 pm

Embar Angylwrath wrote:Correction -

Actually, Obama may be hamstrung in his efforts to actually do anything about it. IRS employees are civil service employees, not political appointees. As such, they have enormous employment protections and lengthy appeals processes.
Over here, misleading parliament carries a 5 year prison sentence no matter who you are. I'd imagine the US has something similar.

Usually public service protections are crazy hard to get through for passive issues like performance, but if someone actively goes outside the bounds then things happen really fast. That's part of the huge incentive to do nothing.

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Minute » Tue May 14, 2013 5:15 pm

I fight for the sake of the Eff!
Fallakin Kuvari wrote:Because laws that require voters to have an ID (Something they are required to have anyway) are bad.... :roll:

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Partha » Tue May 14, 2013 6:36 pm

Freecare Spiritwise wrote:Give us a flat tax, and then there's no need for the IRS or the Tea Party :)
There's still brown people not being servers.
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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Kulaf » Tue May 14, 2013 7:21 pm

Partha wrote:
Freecare Spiritwise wrote:Give us a flat tax, and then there's no need for the IRS or the Tea Party :)
There's still brown people not being servers.
???

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Arathena » Wed May 15, 2013 6:25 am

Embar Angylwrath wrote:Correction -

Actually, Obama may be hamstrung in his efforts to actually do anything about it. IRS employees are civil service employees, not political appointees. As such, they have enormous employment protections and lengthy appeals processes.
The Director of the IRS also resigned in November, and has not been replaced due to Republican obstruction.
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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Harlowe » Wed May 15, 2013 9:52 am

They also did this to liberal groups.

The real scandal....
the social welfare tax exemption is being used by existing 501(c)(4) organizations, including some very large ones, to promote partisan political interests—the very activity Congress has explicitly prohibited for a century."

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Arathena » Wed May 15, 2013 10:01 am

Kulaf wrote:
Partha wrote:
Freecare Spiritwise wrote:Give us a flat tax, and then there's no need for the IRS or the Tea Party :)
There's still brown people not being servers.
???
At least some Tea Partiers have forgotten who lost the War of Treason.
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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Thu May 16, 2013 10:09 am

Heads are beginning to roll.

We all know now it wasn't localized and the order to target conservative groups came from higher up, and was known about by the top IRS official, who chose to tacitly approve of the policy. Reports are coming in that confidential docs were leaked to the Obama campaign. The question is now, how far up did this go, and did it reach some level of the Administration?
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Arathena » Thu May 16, 2013 10:54 am

Interestingly, the IRS only denied tax exempt status to... three groups. For overtly supporting Democrats.
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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Thu May 16, 2013 12:39 pm

Strawman.

It wasn't about denials and approvals. It was about targetting certain groups for aggressive treatment, while not applying that same standard to others.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Partha » Thu May 16, 2013 2:27 pm

Embar Angylwrath wrote:Strawman.

It wasn't about denials and approvals. It was about targetting certain groups for aggressive treatment, while not applying that same standard to others.
Remember when the IRS targeted Greenpeace? Where were you then?
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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Harlowe » Thu May 16, 2013 2:36 pm

That's kind of a stretch to call that a strawman.

You know it was probably a savvy, though unethical way to find the biggest abusers among a sudden influx in filings. You'd look for groups that would most likely be unhappy with the current administration no matter who the party is in office.

501(c)(4) organizations are generally civic leagues and other corporations operated exclusively for the promotion of "social welfare", such as civics and civics issues, or local associations of employees with membership limited to a designated company or people in a particular municipality or neighborhood, and with net earnings devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.[33] 501(c)(4) organizations may lobby for legislation, and unlike 501(c)(3) organizations they may also participate in political campaigns and elections, as long as its primary activity is the promotion of social welfare.[34] The tax exemption for 501(c)(4) organizations applies to most of their operations, but contributions may be subject to gift tax, and income spent on political activities - generally the advocacy of a particular candidate in an election - is taxable.[35]

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Ddrak » Fri May 17, 2013 3:14 am

It was about targetting certain groups for aggressive treatment, while not applying that same standard to others.
Absolutely. The IRS shouldn't have gone through teh non-political tax-exempt orgs and looked for ones with a political sounding name. That would be an efficient use of government time. They should instead search each one of them and look individually.

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Re: Oh for eff's sake, what next

Post by Fallakin Kuvari » Fri May 17, 2013 6:48 am

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