NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:20 pm

superwalrus wrote:#1 reason why men cheat: their wives get fat

Walrus
I know you're trying to be funny and witty (you're neither, but you've cornered the monopoly on the moron market, congratulations). But on a serious note, men (and women) don't stray because of their partner. They stray because of how they feel (or want to feel) about themselves. Infidelity usually has little to do with your partner, and more to do with conflicts that arise between the self-imposed construct of who you think you are, and who you really are.

Spouses suffering an infidelity are rarely the target. They are, for lack of a better term, collateral damage. If a spouse can get his or her mind around that, they can begin to see that the violation of the trust, while painful, wasn't directed at them personally. Sure, there's anger, pain, doubt. But there's also hope, too. Especially if the offending spouse expresses a strong desire to explore the motivations that led him or her to stray, and to work on those issues, hopefully to understand and communicate more effectively with one's self, and ones partner.

I sincerely hope none of you ever have to go through that. And if you do, I hope you're able to tap your indidual well of courage and faith to help get you through it, if you are either the offending spouse, or the one who suffers the infidelity.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Harlowe » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:01 pm

Cheating is one thing, being with a multitude of prostitutes is another. Being with a prostitute period is a deal-breaker.

I could forgive the person, but never trust them. So, it would be over. You can't have a healthy relationship without trust. There are a multitude of things I could "stand by my man" for, but infidelity isn't one of them and certainly not infidelity committed with hookers. If a guy or woman feels the urge to fuck other people, they should be allowed to go and fuck other people. They just shouldn't expect a partner to stay with them because they should be "the bigger person" about it.

I don't find it weak or a lack of courage, I think it's realistic. I would never trust them and I want a relationship that is based on not only love, but mutual respect and trust. A true partnership of adults that respect and love each other. Cheating is more an affront to that respect than a painful oh my feelings were hurt because you cheated. Not to mention, if a person cheats once they are exponentially more likely to do it again.

Toss a hooker in the mix and it's even more likely they've also jeopardized your health no matter how safe they tried to be.

Frankly I would have left skid-marks out the door.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Select » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:17 pm

^Yes.
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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by superwalrus » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:59 pm

Embar, I think you have me confused with yourself in this thread. I'm pretty sure everyone that has seen this thread thinks you cornered the moron market today.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:19 am

Harlowe wrote:Cheating is one thing, being with a multitude of prostitutes is another. Being with a prostitute period is a deal-breaker.

I could forgive the person, but never trust them. So, it would be over. You can't have a healthy relationship without trust. There are a multitude of things I could "stand by my man" for, but infidelity isn't one of them and certainly not infidelity committed with hookers. If a guy or woman feels the urge to fuck other people, they should be allowed to go and fuck other people. They just shouldn't expect a partner to stay with them because they should be "the bigger person" about it.

I don't find it weak or a lack of courage, I think it's realistic. I would never trust them and I want a relationship that is based on not only love, but mutual respect and trust. A true partnership of adults that respect and love each other. Cheating is more an affront to that respect than a painful oh my feelings were hurt because you cheated. Not to mention, if a person cheats once they are exponentially more likely to do it again.

Toss a hooker in the mix and it's even more likely they've also jeopardized your health no matter how safe they tried to be.

Frankly I would have left skid-marks out the door.
That's a very common attitude. Until it happens to you. Then shit changes.

I hope you never have to deal with it Harlowe. Chances are, you will. Llook at the statistics... infidelity is getting cloes to an even spread between husbands and wives. Odds are, your marriage is more likely to suffer an infidelity than bankruptcy. Or cancer in one of the two of you. Or an IRS audit. Speaking just on the odds here, any marriage has a pretty good chance that one of the partners will stray. About 40% of the husbands, and about 30% of the wives. And that gap gets closer every year. Chances are 1 in 3 that any given marriage will suffer an infidelity. Perhaps a bit higher.

Yet most marriages survive an infidelity. Ask yourself why. You THINK you'll react in a certain way, and you THINK you'll be all "OH NO YOU D'INT", but the fact is, most couples find a way through the infidelity. Some in a healthy way, some not. I guarantee you, there is nothing in your experience that can prepare you for dealing with an infidelity in a marriage. You only know how you'll deal with it once you're through it.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Arkaron » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:26 am

It seems to me that people in power usually have bad choice in mistresses.

Did you see this guy's wife during his resignation speech? I thought she was going to punch him in the face.

I tend to agree with Embar's statements about infidelity. Sometimes you can pin it on the primary partner--I don't think "happily" married people cheat--but it seems to me that it's almost never about the person being cheated on, and rooted more in the insecurities of the cheater.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Klast Brell » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:34 am

Looks like the NY times found the call girl.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/nyreg ... ref=slogin
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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Croinc » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:17 am

I bet Bill is looking at these photos and salivating about "the good ole days".
Where's Ronald Reagan when you need him???

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Harlowe » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:55 am

I bet Bill is looking at these photos and salivating about "the good ole days".
Yuck, I don't think his "good ole days" pictures would be anything to salivate over! I think all the women linked to him looked pretty skanky to me.

The way you talking about it Embar, it sounds like you've either cheated or are trying to talk yourself into it being okay if you had a moment of weakness somewhere down the road. I don't know what your life has been like, but that's how it sounds. Accepting statistics as some sort of inevitibility to me is weak. Like blaming your alchoholic father for your mistakes. With that said, I still think those statistics are actually pretty good considering how quickly people rush into marriage. I have more than a couple bride's maid dresses that were for weddings between people that knew each other for 1 year or less.

With regard to what people would do in that situation, I think it's highly arrogant to presume what someone would or would not do. You have no idea what experiences people have had. Personaly, if I say I'd leave, that's what I'd do. I've dumped a relationship over it and it turned out to be the absolute best decision I ever made.

:lol:

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Alluveal » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:59 pm

I could forgive the person, but never trust them. So, it would be over. You can't have a healthy relationship without trust.
+10000 for Harlowe

I could never trust him again, and without trust, there's no respect, true mental/emotional intimacy or whatnot.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:50 pm

Never is a long time, and although I'm absolutely positive you beleive everything you say right now... please beleive me.. there is no way you can know how you'll react to something like this until you actually have to go through it.

Let me ask you this Allu.. can you adequately explain everything you went through during childbirth to someone who has never been through it? And did you behave exactly like you thought you would when it happened to you for the first time?
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Select » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:56 pm

Just because the unexpected often happens, doesn't mean they will react in the way you are expecting them to, Embar.
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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Harlowe » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:28 pm

But Embar, I just said I went through it with someone in the past. I couldn't leave the relationship fast enough and it was absolutely the best thing for me. The guy got married & divorced all within the next year after our relationship ended (and yup, he cheated on her). If you think the odds are bad for married people anyway, the odds of someone cheating again are even worse. That's why it's pointless to me. It's pointless to go on with a relationship with someone I don't trust, with someone that didn't respect me. And far be it of me to try to stop a person from doing and pursuing whatever it is that makes them happy. If that involves fucking other people, then they are going to have to find a partner that is okay with that, because it's not me.

Also, from what I can tell you might have confused stats or are using ones touted by someone schlocking their "Monogamy Myth" book. There were quite a few studies that indicated it was closer to 22-24% for married men and 14-17% for married women. The area where the % is getting higher is disparity between men and women regarding WHO is having the affair. The gap is closing, it's now 55% men, 45% women. Studies over the past 50 years are all over the board on infidelity from 20% to 70% cheating (apparently during the 60's sexual revolution).
Infidelity rates are getting higher and higher in the American society. Here are some infidelity statistics based on a survey by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago:
* 25 percent of men have had extramarital affairs
* 17 percent of women commited adultery
Many couples that go through extramarital affairs end up staying together for their children's sake. Marriage experts say that the real test begins after the affair is over.
* Only 35 percent of unions survive an extramarital affair.
* 65 percent of marriages break up because of adultery
Nothing can destroy a marriage faster than extramarital affairs and marital infidelity.
Apparently the worst recidivism is online cyber affairs...
Another interesting statistic is rarely do people have one online affair. Over 90% of people who have cyber affairs get addicted to them and continue them dropping one person for the next as soon as the drama and excitement wear down. As soon as it gets real.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Klast Brell » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:30 am

I cheated on my first ever serious relationship. She never found out. But over time I thought about it and came to realize how devastated I would have felt had the tables been turned. I also looked at what it was that made me cheat. I was not getting something I needed in the relationship.
I came to the conclusion that a desire to cheat is a pretty good signal that you are unhappy in the relationship and you might as well just end the relationship and get out clean. Consider the alternative. If you cheat you hurt someone else. Do you want to be the person who causes that pain?
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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Partha » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:18 am

Link us that study, please, Harlowe.

I need links for when Embar talks out his poopyhole.
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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Finglefinn » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:28 am

I think the majority of what Embar has said in his last few posts makes a ton of sense.
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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:19 pm

Select wrote:Just because the unexpected often happens, doesn't mean they will react in the way you are expecting them to, Embar.
What I'm trying to get to, Select, is that you have no idea how you'll react if you suffer an infidelity. I'm not saying that I know how people will react when confronted with an infidelity. What I'm saying is that most people's expectations of how they would handle an inidelity don't really stand up when confronted with the reality of it. Some people will, indeed, choose to go. Most will not. Do you know which one of those you'd be? You think you do, but you can't be sure until you actually go through it.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Select » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:00 pm

I know you're trying to say no one knows what will happen, but at the same time, it really reads that you're trying to push that particular reaction.
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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Embar Angylwrath » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:55 pm

Considering that the stats indicate more marriages survive an infidelity than don't, I don't think it's a stretch for me to say that most people think an infidelity is an automatic divorce, yet when confronted with the reality of it, have a reaction much different from what they anticipated.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: NY Gov. Spitzer tied to prostitution ring

Post by Partha » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:59 pm

What stats?
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